Grill This!
Grill This!

Episode 43 · 5 months ago

Think NY, Drink NY

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Jim and Matt are joined by two of the biggest influencers in the New York State craft beer industry: the Executive Director of the NYS Brewers Association Paul Leone, and The founder and owner of Rohrbach Brewing John Urlaub. And Jim smoked some delicious BBQ pork ribs to go along with the beer sampled during the interview!

It's time to take your grilling skills to the next level. We will take you from grill disaster to grill master. So grab your tongue, you're a friends, and your pike glasses. Get ready to grill this with Matt Wilson and Jim Salmon. Hey, everybody, welcome to grill. Ask Jim Salmon here, along with it. Great Matthew Tomahawks steaks. Wilson, how are you bout? I'm doing very well. Show you today, man, you're I was telling me you want to Tom hawgs do. I love for breakfast, night, lunch and dinner. We have some special guests today. Want to do the introduction to well. So we have two great guests today. First, I will introduce a friend of mine that's been on grill this I don't know many times. We've been to his festival, we went to his his his brewery and we've went to the thirty anniversary of his brewery also. It is Mr John Earl of the older and founder of robot brewery. Here you go, Hey, guys. Yeah, thanks for having me, coming me to be here always. That goes your to have you and also, of course, I can't forget our other friend, here. We've bought been to many of his festivals. He's the executive director of the New York State Craft New York Bruce Association. Mr Paul, your hey, Paul Hollister, it's finally good to be here. Thanks for coming here. Oh wait, man, we need to go back now. Yeah, he's a good Jola. I don't mind Paul up stage of super here because well, thank you guys for coming in. I appreciate it. John, you obviously have a really, really cool place. You have two different breweries and a whole bunch of other things that you do. So tell us. The folks love this, this great American Craft Brew Story. Right, of course, about how you got started in all this. Take us through that again. We I know you've done that before with us, but it's such a great story. Yeah, no, no problems will probably it goes back. Well, maybe high school, too much beer, but now maybe you know, I was really lucky. I was working for CODEC for a while, moved around a bunch, and craft beer really I think in the United States, Paul, you'd agree with this, right, kind of California pretty much started the other way. Started West. Yeah, yeah, so I got to southern California and and actually northern Californias first craft beer that I had, which was anchor steam, and I thought wow, after drinking all this domestic beer, this is pretty good stuff. kind of like then, then I get transferred New York City, went to at least one of the earliest brewpubs, was Manhattan brewery, which was great. I thought it was a great concept. And then, unfortunately, I got sent to Germany for a couple of years. I say that kiddingly because that's kind of still the beer capital of the world, I think, and I kind of was really into it and sure just knew that I didn't want to stay codex when I got fortunately, I ended up back in Rochester and I love Rochester. It's where I grew up, but it moved away from many years. We landed back here and I knew it was time to leave and the thing to do is to open a craft brewery. So we so a kind he's curling. Brewing started from the Weston and worked this way in the United States. Pretty much, yeah, pretty, yeah, the trends really yeah, started out west. Okay, we're way ahead of us. Usually it's a European thing. The right everything we see really yeah, because really in Europe all the little towns had their own brewery. It's kind of cool. It wasn't the the US model was very different, where you had these big breweries that would ships beer around. That was not the European model at all. Every time you went to it their own brewery, and that's kind of the way it is now, right. So it's kind of reverted back to that. It just sits at freshness and quality and pride in your local producer and stuff. So it's kind of how it's all kind of come around full circle. Excellent, excellent. You know, John might have a radio voicetion that he said, so I'm just saying it sounds good, right. That's so good. So I want to ask you, Paul us, that we talked to you when we were at the festival out in Albody, which was a great time. Did you have a beat Dunn and brewing beer yourselftry or you just kind of you know, just kind of fell in love with this whole this environment? I was actually a TV producer for twenty years and well, yeah, I started pitching beer TV shows and and that's is where, you know, and then fell in love with the people in the industry and we were a little ahead of our time pitching beer TV shows. It was people. They didn't really know what to do with beer and television. You really didn't see anything. It wasn't wine there. I think it was one wine TV show at the time. And and then I started a beer blog and then that's how I met John Earlob because I was doing this video beer blog back in two thousand and eight and I was bugging the crap out of John. Yeah, John, you got this festival. Jack, Can I do an interview? Jack, Can I do a video? And John would say yes, yes, sure, come and really just so gracious and still is to this day. He's an amazing person and really let me Joe up at your festivals and do video beer blogs and things, and John and I got to know each other throughout the years. And so yeah, television is my background. And you know, it's funny, I would say to you anytime you meet a brewer, one of my favorite questions, whether you know you meet a brewer or somebody in the industry who works in Beer, is they all had a life beforehand and I...

...always say what did you do before? And so John was Kodak right in and now you own a brewery and so everybody's got a backstory. It's great question. That's awesome. Let me owner eject, though, because Paul's I just got to compliment him do it, and not just one up them, but really the videos that he did. I remember one of the early Brewers festals at frontier field and it was so cool. I think we still have it somewhere kicking around on the website. It was a beast, but what he did was very good. See it's on the Internet. It was my very first beer festival and you're a Red Wing Stadium and I had way too much to drink and so the whole point of the whole point of it. So when I got all the footage back, I looked at him like this is a mess. I got to figure out how to make this into a fun video. So what I ended up doing was doing a video of like the three things not to do at a beer festival and and one of them was like, you know, don't drink every beer, ask what the alcohol level is on the beer, and then it was like a third one whatever, get a get a ride home or something. I had to salvage the video because it was my first beer was a little shaky at the yeah, it's that's it. Yeah, it tends to happen that drink them all as what. Yeah, that's awesome. I yeah, we struggle that now, now, right now. Every once in a while we try to you know, all those rooms. You know. It's I'm glad you mentioned that, I cause I, John will tell you I bugged you like eighty million times too. I've done a I did a project, the final project that I did a beer video I did. I did a radio BOS show with about you. So, yeah, you are very gracious. You always say yes, you always take time to talk to us as very nice. You know. I love you, guys. And he led us into that beer festival, which is dear, which was awesome, which was really cool because it was like the first one around here where we were. There were real people there, yeah, instead of you know, the pet personal stuffer and a lot of them were postponed and whatever. So it was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was, and we enjoyed ourselves. Yeah, probably too much, but it was the very first beer fesseval I went to. I think you were in high falls. If if I'm as saying. Yeah, I II date back a long time ago and that was a very that was like when I was first getting immersed in the Craft Beers. I used to work at this bar called the Blue Room. It was right next to the old toad downtown and my friend Joe mcvaine, who actually ran the to have a melt for a very long time. He kind of introduced me into craft beer and I was getting excited about it. So I this is festal you could try whole bunch of beers in the well, what's it called? It? It's called the flower see Bruce Festival. Like all right, I gotta check it out. So my first experience efforts also was your festival at at high falls before you got to reversay you. Yeah, that was that was a nice sight. That was fun. Those were the early days. A little bit crazy, but it was fun. I those days, but it was good. And on a note on that, I do think the flower city brewers, that's might be one of the oldest in the state MITAP New York, and I think your festival I don't think there's anybody still going. Yeah, they were early. It was ninety three, twenty for something. That was couple years after we had open. That's now we're Matt and I are going to long island are Belmont race track. We're excited New York State Brewers Association Festival there. So you know, I can't wait. I've been in New York City in a while and you know. So we're diving right here. So tell us a little bit about that. What I think you have like sixty fifty five or sixty brewer reason we do. I think, the one thing with our festivals, with The York State Brewers Association one, it's all all new Yorkraft beer only and it's from every region of the state and we try to move it around. We do one in Buffalo, we do one in Syracuse, we do one in Albany and we do one on Long Island at the Belmont race track. And the one thing about we try to do is we try to make our festivals experiential a little bit more. You never do the pipe and drape thing and you know, we're as pure as we can and we try to add a little bit more than just the drinking. And so if you go to the Belmont race track, you know, which is one of the the third leg of the triple crown. There's horse racing going on, so it's great that you have a beer festival with all these breweries in the third floor and then you can bet on the horses and then you watch the race and it's right at the finish line the third level, so you can watch the race happen and it breaks up the drinking a little bit, which is also kind of Nice. Like, you know, get your bet slip really you know, have a couple of Beers, wait for your race, go watch the race, the race happens, you win, you lose, whatever you bet on the next race and it just makes it for a nice experience. I had told Matt that I needed him to bring some extra money right said a limit much. So that's April thirty. April thirty and took US still available. Take a still available? Okay, yeah, it's a big it's a big venue. So that's the area. This is the only one I I've had a chance to go the Syracuse one, the Momalo one, we went to, the Albany one. Have not had a chance to go with this one. So I'm excited that. I'm very, very excited to go to this one. We did it one time before covid and then obviously covid got away and so this is our return there to see, you know, the Belmont Racetrack is old but it's a cool venue for sure. So then on June twenty five, there's one in Buffalo, Buffalo, and on November nine if one syracuse. Yeah, that's at the landmark theater every year. Now will you folks be at the New...

York State Fair? As of right now, we're planning and being in the fair. Yeah, we're happening on having a booth at the fair. Okay, we'd think it's, you know, with a lot of people. It's a great way to introduce a lot of folks to craft beer. It's not exactly the craft beer crowd, but right now we're in talks with the state fair to see if we can get a booth there and they want us there and maybe and get the governor to come down. And you know she does, actually crap does. Well, yeah, she will. And and one thing I said. You know, obviously the one great thing about I'll say this about this governor and even the last one. It's really great for she's great for craft beer, and so was the last one. And what I love most about craft beer, and I think John will agree, is that it really is bipartisan. We always bring that in members like Oh, you know, yeah, that guy. I'm like, it's not about that, it's about we, the Republicans and Democrats, and everybody loves craft beer everywhere, like these t leggers of beer. Yeah, it's really also a success story, right. I mean you think about all the breweries in the state and how we've grown. It's not it's not a political issue. It's beer. Yep, when you got started, John, how do you do you know how many craft brewers were around this here, because I know there's obviously there's a lot more now, but when you you were one of the only ones that were. Yeah, of course, are good friends down the roads from of course, of course. But no, I do tell this story because we do. We were very early on. We couldn't even get an application, to kind of apply, and all this does is show that I'm an old guy. But when our when our license was granted, we were the hundred, I think I've told you this, a hundred forty two active brewery in the United States. And now why? The country, in the country. Yeah, yes' impressive, but then it. You know it, especially recently, is really took off. I gotta say, though, it I had how many in New York, though? I mean if you would probably like, then less than a hundred, maybe fifty at that point. Ninety one or maybe less than fifty? Oh, definitely. Yeah, okay, yeah, definitely. Mean they were ser Sharon Aquiz Air, I think Brooklyn. Maybe less than twenty. Yeah, very few. Wow, you know, usually by this time. And Yeah, let's will get at the man. Come on, buddy or nine, playing by the rules here. Well, you know what, all, if you could, I want you to explain this beer for us real quick, because you should do a rarer back beer. Yeah, this one is we can get this one. I'll play it, but get it. Raw Box is right behind you there, man, yes, robot, because I get everybody know that you can get raw back beer a lot of the stuff. Yeah, exactly, and that's why we should do it, because we're going to talk about it. Beer people can get. So the first one, because we were talking about Red Wing Stadium, I supposed to ship right into it. Let's go ahead and share. Drink a red wing Ale again. This is a great beer to have at the ballpark. It's American. embrail, how long you been doing this particular brand? You know, it goes back to was IT Silver Stadium? I think it's weird. Basilver stadium before frontier, and the way we kind of got our foot in the door was we were small enough to do something with their name on it and we really wanted to come up with just a nice, easy to drink, hot summer day baseball. Sure, so it really is. It's her poppy. It's not too heavy, easy to drink and honestly I don't think the recipes change very much. Yeah, it's a it's a only a six, so you can said it's something. It's an all day drinking beer. If you great baseball beer, you got you got nine innings. This is the favorite sound effective the show right here. I loves that sound. That's relatable. Yeah, even though we're taking our time grabbing a beer, I hope our guests that are listening have been enjoying, I know, bear something. I hope. Ye. Oh, yeah, punch of lisses. Yeah, we're gonna, yeah, just keep you've had this one right. Yeah, okay, all right, it's want me. Yep, there we go. Thank you. Yeah, actually look at this. This is way up on my list. I do enjoy it. You did to drink it's because that was on my list to ask you what's your own favorite beer that you make? And this is got you're saying. This is up there. Oh yeah, it's definitely up there. Right. Where to Scotch Ailfit in that? That's probably hit the top of the list. I don't know why, and it's funny. I always tell people and that we'll talk about it, but it's it is our flagship, but it wasn't intended to be. We didn't say, well, this is going to be our lead, this is what we're going to do. It's just kind of was a good beer and it kind of rose to the top and became the best seller and it's cheers guystic. So it's such a good ballpark beer. Can I say one thing about Scotch Ail, which is interesting at you know Scotchail is. It's first off, it's a great Scotchail. I mean it really is a great Scotchail. It's very true style. But even in this competitive market where tap handle space is more competitive than ever, you still see Scotch Ail abstly. It's a beer that people you know or just a die hard to because it's so good, and that's really hard to do right, to maintain, to keep that tap handle space. Yeah, you know put somebody explained it this way once, but one of the borough owners that I did business with it shes you were only renting that tap handle. It should have we are not pulling it, you're gone. You know, you got to earn it and honestly, it's got a good following and people trusted it's kind of one of those gotoos. So many selections out there and there's...

...a lot of consumers and I think it's great in our business. They're very adventurous. I want to try new things. What's the latest? What's the greatest? Sure, but if there's also a lot of folks that are out there that are know what they like and it's just kind of a it's a go too. Doesn't mean that's the only thing you drink, but you know you trust it. You look at the listen of a scotch. So I know a lot of we earned in my circle we call it a robock Scotchail. That's cause that's the one we like the bust. I mean that's I think that's a really a lot of people relate. I mean that's one of the earlier beers that I enjoyed was a scotch jail. The highland logger also was as one that I can think of that I really love as well. I got question for both you guys real quick and then we're going to talk about the food that we're having today. Just. Oh, we're having food. Yeah, but so obviously beer styles, they've changed a lot. There's so many that come in. There's the you know, before it was people were drinking really scots and there's a type of wisings and they'll all type of those kind of things. Now there's ours and the I. There's IPAs and hazy IPAs and dippers and triples and all that stuff now. So it seems like, even though with all these varieties and flavors of beers, the brewers are going back to like loggers and like pilzers again, and that's kind of where they're focusing in because it even though it's a it's a clean and and some people, some people will think it's a simplicit taste. It really isn't. In it's tougher to make. What do you guys think about that. You go ahead, you're the one making beer. So yeah, you know yourself. Making lighter style. I brought a Hellus, which is a German style, you know, very light logger. People tend to you know the finance guys who don't love loggers because they'll take longer to make. In part of the most expensive thing we have are all these tanks, but it's it is a more difficult because it's nothing's going to hide in there. You're you're going to make it right. It's going to taste clean and fresh and delicious and hops will come through and you know crisp finish or you're not. You know it's not going to be hidden by heavy, really hoppy beers or roasted malds. Nothing's going to hide anything. But I do think too there is just kind of trend because of all these crazy styles of people are just going to go back to something it's a little bit more drinkable. And I don't think that the other styles are a bad thing. They're great. That's what's bringing so many people to the table. But I think the brewers like that challenge. You're saying, man, I can make like you know, German beers were always kind of on a pedestal, you know, the kind of special, special and make. The Germans would argue no one can make it as good as they are, as they can. I believe we can and we're proven it and I think that's a badge of honor. I think the brewers like it and I think the consumers like it to and I think everybody has to remember that Craft Beers only thirteen percent of the entire market. Thirty seven percent of the market right now is really light logger, you know, macro beer folks. And so I think for me personally, I think every brewery in the state should be making a light logger if some kind, because there are a lot of people like I, don't like craft beer. But you know what, if you have this or if you have if you have something to offer them, it's a great it's a great style of beer and it's he's a drink of all. It's what most of the populations used to drinking. You know, I wanted to ask you about the supply chain of things. You know, you hear about this all the time and this is missing or you can't buy this particular lawn marw you know, whatever what's it like for grains and hops and stuff that you need to Brew Beers with? I mean, where are we with all that? It's tough. In a word, it's tough, but there are ways around it. Hops we contract prices have gone up quite a bit, but we've been able to get them the malt this year. You know, that's just a raw material to natural proct and they had issues with rain and bad weather. So we can get grain the quality we were working with just a little bit to make sure that we're our yields are the same. So it's always a challenge. Probably the biggest challenge. I think Paul would agree with this in the brewers. He talks to his cans, and for us it's right. Really it's tough and and it just gets worse. You know, every time you get a call, the guys will say, well, we just heard from our can supplier and it's this much longer or we can't get them or the too expensive for your minimums go up. So it's a challenge. One of the fun things for Matt and I when we went to the festival there in Albany was you and the same thing's going to be true in Long Island that you're actually visiting with the people that are doing it. It's not people that are just paid to stand love. And so you know, we were talking about the can shortage and that little what do you call that little thing that goes into can? We the little little a bold, if you think like a geth a little plastic or whatever balls inside the can. That's with the nitrogp yeah, N Yeah, yeah, well, they we're having trouble getting nose and you know we ought to know what that's called. I'll do show PRIPP next time. I figure that that's my fault. But you know, a little stuff like that, it just makes your life much more difficult with that. Yeah, I know the can people. The same thing with aluminum coil stock for citing contractors and all that kind of stuff. There's just a big shortage and all of that stuff. So you Gott to get creative and go out there...

...and find it. Yeah, there was a coot shortage. I mean weird stuff at one point in time that you just wouldn't imagine they'd be shortages of and it was. And how about people has that? Is that an improved shortage of those? Do you know honestly we're very lucky and there is it's different, but we we have been very lucky through the pandemic because we've always focused on, you know, keeping them busy, keeping them employed. We didn't really lay anybody off. So all the people we've had our have been there and they're really experience. We got a great brewing crew and and the folks that are working in the restaurant are great and they've been around for a long time. It's hard to find new people and we are kind of growing and trying to do that, but they're out there. You just got to look a little harder. Management styles a little bit different. You with the good thing from employ standpoint. So I think all employers are realizing employees, you can't do it without them. Yeah, and you really got to take good care of sure pay and fairly, get a compensate and fairly. You gotta create a good working environment. You got to keep people safe and I think things are changing and it's going to be for the better and it'll all work out in the long run. Bit of a challenge now, but we get through it and I think we're personally, I think it raw bocks we're doing. We're very, very lucky. Yep, I would agree with that. I had a chance when I was making that film project. It was still during like the height of cold, that I believe. Yeah, and we had to like, you don't wear masks and social distance, even though that was the case, and I was and I sat there at the guy had, like I had some lunch and a couple beers. Well, there too, people were still overall happy, you know, people still had positive that, because there's one thing I've always said. Doesn't matter if you're a good mood bad mood, matter how things are happening in the world. Beer make people happen, Ben Frankly, it's true. I have you know, there's I always go back to the story, you know, two thousand and eight. I got caught up and in that mess and got lost my job and, you know, really started. That's when I started, like I got to do something in beer on you, something makes me happy. And the one thing we found in the recession in two thousand and eight, I don't know if you found this too, is that when times are good, people drink, when times are bad, people drink more. And and I say that not in an alcohol no sure, but also what we found out in two thousand and eight. What a lot of Berriis discovered was that people were buying craft beer because it they viewed it as a luxury item and it made them feel better. So instead of the thirty pack of the Macro Beer, you know, that six pack of of, you know, raw bock beer, something was just you know what, I'm going to treat myself best of. Times are tough right now and and you know, even so, during the pandemic, like you know, John said, it was it hasn't been easy, but really, people supporting their local breweries kept them all open. And I think, you know, because of the pandemic, in this isolation and social distancings of people are longing to be social and beer and food and going out to a pub is a social thing and thinks you want to do with your families and your friends and people long for that and it's coming back pretty strong. In my you know, poor, I will admit this poor attempt at show prep here. I want on your the roarback website and today's appor twenty right, that isn't twenty. Yeah, four hundred and twenty. Yeah, it is for twenty. Yes, and it says here parting glass series Imperial Citrus Ghosts Release Party. Yes, well, I'm party in here. Westall John from the party. It's all right, we are honored. I wanted to just ask you about this. It's every brewer, craft brewer that Matt and I have talked to says that New York State is definitely on board and has been helpful. has waived a lot of different normal things that you know don't that apply to hard bars and so forth, and have given kraft breweries a whole different set of criteria that makes it easier to operate. It's a layup question for me, but I'm going to I'm going to throw it over to John, because John is somebody who's been brewing when the laws were horrible and John is actually one of the early, one of the early folks that the Brewers Association period. Like you, we were here at the beginning. So what was it likes a lot of people don't realize how you people go now to a to a brewery and get a pint of beer. It wasn't that long ago, even during my tenure, that was illegal. Yeah, and so talk about what it was like. I mean I think that's a really good question for you. How far the laws have come? Yeah, well, it's amazing what we do. We should talk about New York state and how supportive they have been of our industry, but it was hard. We were kind of finding our way. The Liquor Authority is you know, they still have the ABC laws. The liquor authorities really just there to make sure that the ABC laws are followed. Some of those are very old and antiquated. But I think that New York state as a whole has really kind of embraced everything that's going on, and Paul tell you this. Paul, guys kind of send it back in the way because it used to be very difficult. We found our way much more difficult than it is today. But Paul will travel around the country and talk to other associations and leaders and they look at New York state and they're extremely jealous of what Paul...

...and our lobbyists and really we can legislators have been very supportive of making sure our industrial grow and we they took the handcuffs off and let us do our thing. It really is one of the most liberal states in the country. I mean it really is. In terms of alcohol law. We can self distribute here. Believe it or not, in most states and a lot of state you can't even self distribute your own beer. They're tied to the three tier system. You've got to marry a wholesaler and that's the only way you're going to get your beer out. There are some brewers that can sell out of the town room in some states, but very limited quantities. There are still states where you can't buy more than like a four pack of beer and walk away for that. And there we can do all of that here. You know, when the pandemic hit, direct a consumer became a thing. Right, you can. You can get an Amazon package delivered to your to your porch. Why can't you get a four pack of Beer deliversure? It would a made sense. You're right, and it, believe it or not, that's still illegal. And so, you know, these are things that we're working on. We found a loophole that will allow it with a certain licenses, but you know, these are these are things that we work on to just try to make you you know, alcohol to go just as a new thing right. Well, let yeah, last week the Assembly signed off on the right and so currently you can sell alcohol to go, but you can't sell bottles right, stors Canto, so Bruce said, we did enough really affect us. John. You can go John's brewery and buy a four pack of beer and I'll kick get to go. You can go to a bar and buy John's beer and so get to go. Not Open I mean open container law still apply no matter what, sure, but don't really affect beer. But it does affect the liquor, distilled spirits and wine. Okay, yeah, and mostly, mainly the restaurants, because what they were doing, and I think it kind of makes sense. You need a Mexican restaurant. You go to a lot of different places in good Chipoli if you want to, but if you have look better honey or there's a bunch of them in town, Selina's. They make Great Margarita's things that you probably would make it home right or have all the ingredients. So I think it's really help them. But it more is as Paul pointed out, it's more for the spirits and having a mixed right. Did you know he's also the head of the New York Stay Restaurant Association right now? No idea. Is the president of the John Wow, I love you. So then here yeah, let's start talking fluid. No, holy Kiddy, we will be talked about the food very soon. Yeah, I want to try one more beer and then we're going to talk about what Jim has prepared for it. By the way, I have to smell it. I can know after this because it's what we do. This is the worldest podcast. You can find us on, Iheart spotify, where we get your podcasts. Also wrote this Podcastcom make sure you visit us. You have all the pictures. We even have dates of where we're going to be on the road, including that we were talking about. We're going to be in Long Island to April there. Yeah, looking for to that's a good time. So why don't you tell us, John Will, about this beer right here now? It's you just said. What's your favorite beer? Well, Scott Chail probably. We have a neo taric series, which are kind of it's short releases. They come in they go out, but our current one is a double block and a Boch beer is a German beer. It's a logger, you know, very traditional. It's not really out there. It's a standard style. But I have to tell you one of my favorite beers we've ever brewed I it's just my style. I like it and I think this one really hit the mark. AC and, by the way, Matt, two of those in there in CA and the Abd. It's up. There's The yes, five, I see is a little bit. Really stand up to those Yale big heavy eat dishes. Right, amazing. It's amazing. All right. Well, why don't we have a little bit of this. Try to try that sound again, everybody. Here we go. So we're having who love that? We're having ribs for a little girl. This snack here today I had some pork ribs. I like to buy ribs that are not too expensive and see if I can make good out of mediocre. Okay, I love I love the whole Guinea pig deal, and so these ribs are got them out last night. Thank you, sir. And I use this. We make this particular rub here at the ranch. It's a I don't know about ten different things and put it all, you know, rub it all on there and some salt and pepper and whatever, and then I completely covered it with barbecue sauce and blackberry jam and then it went in stayed overnight there and then we it was low and slow on the on the Komodo Joe the ceramic grill at about two hundred degrees pretty much all day. That's been so we'll check that out here after we've had this beer. I see, I see why you like the switch back. This is delicious, man. Thanks, Matt So. I think it'll go great with ribs to so Jim. Honestly, the cheaper cots with a little more marbling, a little more muscle. If you're cooking at slow...

...that way, that's the almost better. That right, doesn't end up better. I wanted to cook it the right way. I agree with this. I have people in my mental life to say why are you feeding us that now? They haven't tasted it yet. Right, and we'll think nothing of going out and buying a sixty times. But it's that's the challenge of this to try to make you know the best stuff you can. It's the best price, right. I like Tomahawks, little GIMM and I know it. Every once a while we did a case of Tomahawks from Hagga Art, hagging orange market, of course, the official Meat Department of growing. By the way, sirs, is it really? Yeah, very much so. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they're a wonderful family owned. They have a butcher right there in the meat department. Yeah, they'll cut US anything we want. And so we had primar rim here at the ranch for Easter. We had I don't know, fifteen or twenty people and and Primar Ram was gone in sixty seconds. Good thing I had that backup ham. You know, I did a I did a bacon wrapped pork loin lowest slow on the on the smoker, and I also did a bacon rap steak Sirloin, also on lowest slow in the smoker. I open we got it out, I cut it up. It was gone immediately. Now was Sirloin is pretty. It's it's not very fat. No, it's not, but it's still really nice. Slow it'll cook. It's slow and low. What helps? Number one is I spray I spray butter on top of it before I put the Bacon on it, and the bacon is up is so fatty that when you go to the snow that Bacon, the juice from the bacon goes read into the state. So it makes it nice and more sounds Nice. Yeah, it was really good. heaster dinner mats next year. You know right. I've learned from the Best Jim is is. That is really good at the grilling and I've I was smoking with Wood. I'm now smoking with wood pellets. I finally have a pellet smoker and that's changed my life and I it's so matt. Does it change the flavor lot? But because you're, I would think, with the smoke, obviously you're getting that smoky flavor, which is good too, right, Yep. Yeah, well, and the pell smokers are still woods. You still get that smoken flare from the from the pellets. Also, I have these tubes where you can put pelts in the tubes and you can like that up. So if you want to add even more smoke, you throw two of those tubes in there and it actually puts more smoke into it. So it's great. The thing with a pellet stove is you can get fifty different kinds of pellets, right, every would you ever thought of? And these I did with with Mesquite. You can smell it and mosquite has more of a smoke, of more of a bite to it. I mean you can always tell. But there's blends, there's all kinds of things, but the pellets just burn slower right that they burn real slow. Yeah, it burn slow in this book. Obviously, if that's really cold outside, it was really windy or something like that, that will you have to add more pellets. But you may notice that there are in front of each one of you is a roll of paper towels. Yeah, there's very reason for that. Yeah, it's gonna be like so we're going to dive in real me put my ring to the side, diving these real quick. I'm going to chew on Air, as we always do. The first thing they teach you in broadcast school is never chew gum or eat or drink anything while you're on the air, and of course we violated that for thirty five years. M amazing. This is well done. These are these are fairly tender. Oh Yeah, now, I've always said with a really good rib everyone goes for fall off the bone, right. That's like the that's the thing competition ribs. You don't want to do that. You actually want a little bit of a pipe to him. You don't want it to be hard and get stuck in your teeth, but you don't want this to blow it and falls off the bone. This is like right in the middle where should be, I think. And the flavor is there. Oh, yeah, moist, delicious. You can definitely get that mesquite too. Yeah, this one has some smoke to it. Absolutely, and this beers good, good, the beer that beers axent. That's that's a weird yeah, I was going to ask you about because I'm you know, I love the roar box, Scotch jail, like we said before. But you did a banana yeah, the bye. We have it up there on the wall of fame here, right here and grill list. And how did that go? Did it go good? Did People like it? It definitely did. We always do a little batch. I was going to just comment, though. Jim. Another rule you should do is not to ask the guests a question. What cause your mouth is they're right, you're right. In this sweets of thought, I'm falling on rid or delicious ribs, delicious. No, we always do a small what we call small batch, which you just offered a Rawer box and we got great responsis for. We actually did a collaboration with nine maidens, which is another brewery in town, and that was their ideas, like bananas, fosters really, and you know, it's got the chocolate Welt. We reviewed it here. We loved it. Yeah, you don't want to have it. Was that your three at anniversary, because you guys had a right? That's right. And Jim's like you gotta try this exact because I got their little late Jim to get over it. Overs fuck.

You know, it's tough on some of those because we really do. That's our NEO Taric, is our innovative side and we really want to always do something new. But sometimes you'll have a release like that that everybody loves. It kind of say geesy. You bring it back or not? But usually we try to do different things and you know the the classics we have all the time, but things like that are just kind of in and out and just enjoy them and try something else. Now. I know I've asked you this before, but who comes up with all these names? I mean there's Ruber bocks, instrument of dread or what comes up with that stuff? Well, I can admit that it's not me, but we have a very creative step something I I think I'd might have told her. I hope I didn't tell the story before, but space Kittie, I was totally again and I got over ruled and I was really glad I got over ruled. That's that's that's good. My son in law that's his favorite beers. Wear box base kid and he's got good take. I was just going to say as far as ipays goes, that's one of my favorite ipeas. Thanks, guys, and I love every time if it's a Friday, they get done with a week of work. I'll stop about local grocery store get a four pack of space getting Nice. I'm not even lying until it's true it's a Good Friday. Be's so because we ask the tough questions here and I have you sitting here and this is cool. There are four packs of beer that started ten bucks, Fifteen Bucks, eighteen bucks, twenty five dollars. Matt and I are particularly we love these heavy fruited sours once in a while, which are really, really good. Is that cost difference? Is it usually all about ingredients, or is it time, or is it just the rarity of it? And and we're making more on this because there's not that much of it. I mean, how does that work? You know, I think is a combination, like like a lot of answers, in combination of a lot of things. I think it's mostly driven by cost. If you look at the fruited Sour than you. You putting a lot of fruit expensive. The yields aren't great on it, you know. So there's definitely some costs that are in there. Some of them might be aging and how long that it sits in there. But there's always a factor of demand to if you're real small brewery and you don't produce a lot of it and it's you know, you don't have lots of economies of scale, that adds to the cost to but some of it's just that it's really popular, I can get a little bit more for it, you know, on a special beer you do that because it maybe another one that you can't do that. So it's probably a combination of all those. You gree Paul, and yeah, I like that. And I also want to point out too, is that, you know, if you a lot of breweries charge eighteen, twenty dollars a four pack, they're only making a couple bucks. And on each one of these that they're not. They're not. Breweries aren't like getting greedy and anyway, you know, especially if you're mobile canning or like, the cost of the CAN, the cost of the label, cost of the ingredients and done, the cost of the machine that that does all of these things, cost of the people, you know, the Craft Beers, craft beer. You know. You go into John's place and you see his canning machine and there's five people working on it, right, you know? I mean it's not like a one audible, one person, automated machine where you push a button. All that has a cost, and so I think people need to understand that brewers aren't getting greedy with these prices. They're only making a couple bucks. Sure now, perfect. Most craft breweries have their own ability to can our own beers. Or do they? As there a no. Well, I mean that's kinds it'spress. What's expensive? Equip? Yea, it really is. And and the I guess the beauty of it is many of these small breweries can use this mobile canning person comes around and does a canning so there's always solutions. For me, actually, like a truck. Yeah, come, oh, really, okay, yeah, yes, really cool. You'll bring an yeah, they'll bring the equipment and a truck and they'll unpack this canning machine and plug it right into the tanks and bring the cans and and Hook up a machine and can for a day and then leave, you know, and you've got cans. Had No idea. Yeah, that's a home business. Fascinating. Okay, I have a question for both you guys and regards to the actual craft you're in industry in general, it seems like every time you talk to a craft brewer, even though this is obviously your in business, so there's there's going to be competition no matter what, but there's like a mutual respect among like almost all brewers, it does this seemed like everyone's at each other's throats to outdo each other. Someone's like if someone else is doing well, they're proud of that person and they also want to emulate that and also do well. And also, I've talked a lot of people. Know who you are, John, obviously, and you've coached them, were guided them into how to be successful in this industry. Is that just the normal? Is that just the industry itself, that that's how craft beers everyone's kind of you know what, even though we are trying to all be successful, we're all part of this larger family and we're all trying to be successful together. What do you think? Well, yeah, I mean I think John is again, I'm going to give him a good compliment here. You know, if if one of the breweries down the street was short on Malt or short on hops and they'd call you, John would say, Hey, I've got some extra, get me getting me give you some, you know, and so and you do do that, and I think that's the industry just works that way. And what's great about this industry basicly, Oh,...

...you can hit the saturation point, and I always say this. You know, if John was still the only brewery in Rochester, with with Genese, that would be fine, that would be good, but the fact that there's so many now we're a destination, Rochester destination and you know, and so people will hop around, they go to they'll go to John's and then they might go to rock and they might go to strange bird, they might go to Genesee, like it's just, you know, a fifth rate, like there's a bunch that people can go to and now Rochester is a beard asted's Neica, really exact. And Matt, I would say too that most of the people are business as we do it because we're passionate, we want love what we do right, right. So there's this brotherhood that everybody and really it's like Paul pointed out, we're thirteen percent of the market. So mean there's a lot of opportunities out there and honestly, the better we all do together making really good beer, the more that'll grow. We've got lots of opportunities and it's not like we're against the mass produced guys, but in a way this is this brotherhood of craft brewers that we wanted to continue to grow. We want everybody to do well. We all do the same thing that we totally love doing, so it's pretty cool. One of the things I love when I go to a craft brewery, especially the first time, as I'll always, you know, sort out the person that's running it or that's in charge at that point and get a tour of the whole facility. It's fascinating to watch the stuff and they all, you know, they take us back there and they show us how this works and that works and whatever. And when I'm at robots on Buffalo Road, that tanks there stand out like I mean, it's fascinating, but that's those tanks are different than you find in a lot of other places. They're they're like copper right there, giant. What was that all about? I mean the IT. The backstory on getting that is what we're interested in here. You know. The back story on that is they were bought a long time ago and I didn't have any money. Okay, so we boughtom you who's didn't? Wherever Week you get them. But it just seems to fit and they're they're nice because they're uni tank. I mean they're you don't see those every yeah, but you know, they all work the same way. It's the magic that the brewers put into the passion that you know that they do making the beer. But the tanks essentially are the same and they just fit in. They work and it is it's like a lot of us did. We just kind of piece it together. I could tell you there must have been at least six or seven or maybe eight breweries that we bought filters from and tanks from and whatever we could get, and you put it all together and it all works. That's pretty cool. All right. Well, I think it's time for other beer guys. We guys think that sure now. Right, what you got there? All right, so another of you, Mr Salmon, because I understand that you enjoy the fruited sours. I do. I mean that is my new love. I brought one for you. Oh did you okay? So mad is the you know, he's so good to me and it's just great and any time, you know, I tell the story over and over again because we both love beer and you know, that's why we do this podcast. But when it came time for a kitten that we had here at the ranch to be transferred to the Wilson Family, I, you know, his wife and I were talking back and forth, and my wife and his wife, we're talking back and forth about getting this kitten for the family and finally when it was deliver and I said to his wife, all I have to do is now get it by Matt and make sure that's okay. And she said don't worry, I'll cook them dinner and give them some craft beer. So that's all good. That's a true story, the way in by heart. Yeah, so you guys are talking about Strawberry Daiquiri's earlier, if I if I'm not mistaken, someone one of you guys were, I believe. So this is from more Talis brewing. They're they're a newer brewery. They're doing very well, though obviously this is one of the stopped over there forgot one a few days ago. Whatever. This is a phoenix. This is a strawberry daiquiri beer. It's not too heavy, about six six point. Oh, and I have to tell you it tastes just like a strawberry Daichi, doesn't you know? You've tried it. I've already. Is. It's a heavily fruited sound this one the Heav you're not supposed to roll those cans before you open them. That not supposed to all, you are supposed to Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, we learn at the hardware that. Yeah, we we get learned that, because and then hew it the time we so we'll leave to say it, make sure what we do the rolling or the flip or whatever, and then we're talking was ill, this fort whatever. So yeah, so this, I guess I get. I went through this. Guys, if you like to Rubery Daquis, you like this like shrubberry deckriis. It tastes exactly like a shrubbery down, really it does. So I think, Jim, you're going to be very happy. But I think it's a great thing about craft beer, and we used to be, you know, when John went to Germany and, like you know, European Beers are really just pure and wonderful and awesome. And you know, the US was really the laughing lock of beer for a long time...

...and now I think we'd lead the world and with the great thing about brewers in great sound, and the real thing about anything about American brewers is that you know, there really is no boundaries, for the good or bad of it. Like, you know, if they can brew, you know, I'm going to brew this with Rocky Mountain Oysters. You know which there is a stout. You Know Rocky Mountain Hi was just that they will right. You know it and it's good. So brewers really there's no boundaries. You like what you like and and it's really US brewers, American brewers, are really just pushing the boundaries. Rocky Mountain Oysters are a future food here on grill list. Is it really all right? Yeah, we did them. I lived in Colorado for a while and Rocky Mountain Oysters. There was this place called Bruce's bar and Bruce Ruth was the guy's name. He's dead now but he was a cowboy and that was back in the cowboy days in Colorado and they served thousands of pounds of Rocky Mountain Oysters. They were wonderful. I Love Them. Not for everybody, but they were excellent and this guy would go not see'd have too much to drinking, get in there with his three hundred fifty seven and shoot the lights out and stuff. It was a great it was a wonderful place to go and Rocky Mountain Oysters are are awesome, especially if the right dipping sauce. Now, I think, obviously because of course, because he does par this this podcast, we think food and beer is very important to kind of go hand in hand. How important is food paring when it comes to craft beer? To you guys? We have a restaurant. So yeah, yeah, well, I think one of the beauties of craft beer is that with food it stands up to it. There's so many you know, we're a Paul was just saying there's no boundaries. I mean, I love my wine too, but wine is it's got it, slaine. You know it doesn't. It can't be as wide or you know, the flavor profiles aren't as broad as beer. But beer compare so well with food or even if it's not exact, and I always tell people too, there might be a rule that says, you know, with a real spicy food you should eat and I drinking IPI. Yeah, well, if you don't like an ipid drinking, which you like that, but at least it's gonna stand up. Ams Ribs are flavorful and delicious and and both of these beers are. We're trying with it stand up to that flavor. It doesn't just like doesn't play a background. Runna matches both of them. So I think it's really important. It's it's been important for us all long because we just think again, if you get back to what we're what it's all about, I think it's about social it's about enjoying the time you have with others, and food and beer just kind of go together real well. This sour, this awesome. Man, I told you this is wonderful because part of us on ice cream and it be great, awesome, very extremely sweet. But it does, for like a strawberry decorate. The flavors definitely there if you if you look at for us, rubbery decory is but the sour comes out of it. It does. There's a certain amount of pulp, which particularly likes. So Wonderful Beers. So that was very kind of you. Thank you, of course. You're very welcome. I think about your gym. I think I'm drinking that fruits almost healthy right there. Just like catchup yet. So I'm going to ask you both the DRUDG question because all of us, I primarily drink craft beer. It's I mean I I do drink some other things, but primarily I drink craft beer. Is there a time where you fall back on the standard industrialized beers, the Macro Beers? Do you ever say, you know what, I'm gonna go on a boat today, I'm going to drink a bunch of Blah, Blah Blah. Is that ever happen or do you sticks you still strictly? I know, I know, I thought gonna I have to ask the questions and I love you both dealing, but that's the question. This is not being recorded. No, no, I know, I actually will. There are certain beers I will never drink again because pencible. But I will say that you know, on a hot summer day there's nothing nicer than a nice cold Miller high life. You Know Shar Pain of Beers, right? I think you know. If you go to a really good dive bar, I'll know. I've been known to get the two dollar PBR. I think we've all you know what I mean. I'm not above all that. I'm not about yeah, PBR. He's like God. I'm just waiting, yeah, to bar like Jim, finding something decent, you know, Madello or whatever. I still I can go with something really lighter, logger. I still would try to go for a craft once in a while. I, you know, Madelo or something. There's something right, whether it's a hiding or something. If it's if it's offered. But I try to stick to craft. My summer go to you know, but it's a New York Beer, okay, which is the you know, Drinkable Golf Beer is UTICA club. UNUKA club is...

...an old school. You know that PBR EIRA be beer. That SARANAC makes a ton of still and you know, I get Aj's at one thousand six hundred and ninety nine a case. You know, grows seven the cooler for some golf, you know, for four and a half five percent beers. Yeah, I can't beat it, especially when the kids are all coming over with their friends. You don't want to break out the good stuff. You see and you see it is good. I'm falling my brother has a house on the island of Casomel and the Yucatan Peninsula right on. What are we going? Right? Yeah, anytime am we gonna do this? The goodest, the goodest, the best part of that whole thing is all I got to do is pay to get there. Right. So it's time. I want and I've been there. been going there for twenty years and it was pretty much servation. You know, they had a couple versions of that, but but the last time I went there's craft breweries on the island. There's a couple of them that showed up. So this that's going on all over the world and I think, I think the creativity of there's almost nothing that somebody couldn't figure out how to make a beer out. Yeah, I think that's true, true now, including pumpkinize, and I'm gonna ask you guys Pumpkin Beers. I know you make one was not bad. It's bad. You're killing me, you but Pumpkin Beers in general, they had they had their minute. Yeah, you know, there were some that you know, you know, everybody for a while was making a pumpet there and the distributor everyone was doing up here, and then it was good for a minute and then I am you could you know, and then everybody's like, okay, I really don't want another pumpkin beer. And now you don't see many of them. You know, there are some that are still out there, which is good and they should be. It's a good you know, but style, but not everybody should make up a pace. The pumping spicyction is is a is a decent flavor. It just it was over saturating for a little bit. Yeah, across the board to write that the coffees and everybody's doing pumpkin everything. I think Paul's right. I think I fell a little. I wouldn't call it a flash in the PAN, but it's not as popular as of one. Right, I agree with that. Let's talk festivals, right, because, yeah, so I will ask Paul First, because I know you're just coming up pretty soon. I'm I want to ask you about the flower so Bruce Frestifal so, the festival and Long Island. What how would you come up with the concept of doing it? I got at the Horse Truck. What what cause? I know, like, like we said before, a lot times vessels just like an open field somewhere something that's us what it is, what made you, what gave you the idea or or your organization the idea to put it on a horse record or door during a horse race. We actually, for our festivals, since I started this job, work with a production company out of Long Island called starfish junction productions, and they really help us with the logistic, oh part of it, like the day of and all of that. And so they're based on Long Island and they think him of the concept. They do one there during the year two and they said, we've got a contact there and it's it's, you know, it's this, this and this. Do you want a partner on this? And you want to be in there together? And we're like sure, yeah, and it's let's do it. And it's expensive to do anything. It's yeah, it's really expensive to do stuff. And believe it, I mean the Belmont race track is great, but once you guys, and if you've been there, I've been. I've never been a belt yeah, I've never been to long island. It is I've been walking about that. That's it's just outside of the city. I mean you're just on the other side of Queen's right. So you're really close to the city, but there's really nothing there and what used to be there was a big parking lot and now they built the arena where they play hockey. The islanders play in the parking lot. So it's a really weird place, but in a fun way. So we're just like or lukurytial. Yeah, you it. You guys will like it. I'm so happy that you guys there and I'm so happy that you come to I remember just seeing you guys, because who are those guys like interview with the cameras show up, but you were so happy and joyful and like just doing what you were doing and I just loved having you there, and so I'm just so happy that you guys are you know. And so yeah, you come to any one of ours, anytime, anywhere. That's great, because when we were in all but me there a couple months ago, it was a beautiful venue. By the way, a little different. I mean you walk into that courtyard, it was like you were inside but you're outside of desmonds. A weird play it was. But if I'm a que pond and trees and in the winter time you feel like you're kind of outdoors. And if if you're Gat when you're done, you just walk up to your room. You know, simple that. It was great. We had it. We had a great time there. We interviewed I don't know, twenty two, thirty different we did, the people, brewers, and they all would just want to tell their story. Were all we love happy talk to us. So we just were very happy. I want to go back to you now, John, you you've been doing the fessil thing forever and it every time I go it's still a lot of people. Everyone's enjoying it. How do you keep that going so long? How was it? Because, even though if you've done it so long, it feels fresh every year the way you do it, like, I love this last word. Once you where you have that little board with all like the the beers are thing on it. We never was taking the picture against it all. Thats UF. So how do you keep just reimagining the special every year,...

...year after year? Well, you know, one of it, one of the things is we work hard on it to try to come up with new ideas and, as Paul said, it's about the experience and I think we try to do that. But you know, there are festivals out there that are put on with promoters or just distributors, and we know we can be different by really taking care of the brewers and having them want to come to our festival and making sure it's kind of funny. It's at the market and and that venue. I love that. We just doesn't have two different places. Son Aburg, guards againadag we were at the high fall site. We're front your field, which was fine. It was all good, but we landed in the best spot to do a festival like this. But we do it different than the market. You know, the market usually the vendors under the outside, everybody's in the end. We moved it around so that the brewers are all kind of together instead of along the back wall. So they love at least I think so, Paul. You could correct me if I'm wrong. I think they love to be there and we want the brewers to be there and we want them to, like you guys said, tell the story about your brewering and stuff. That's why people come to the festival. So I think they still want to come. They keep it fresh as always. New Breweries that are coming up, great venue and we try to work hard on to make it a good experience in something unique. So around what time this year will your festival be at? If you know, thise Justin around August nineteen at five o'clock. Could you be more specific? Just around? It's just about day. Well, yeah, it actually tickets will be on sale pretty soon. We'd we you know, the VIP's fun because it's special, ten special food, especial. Yes, it's not just a lot of the VIP is just getting an hour early before the crowd gets there. Right. Well, first of all, we don't. We try to control the crowd, to try to manage it so there aren't long lines and stuff. It's all about not how much you make that year. It's about how can you do it for twenty five years, twenty five years plus, and I'm not going to do it for another twenty five, but I hope somebody else does. It's amazing and of course we'll be that one. It's too as well, as we love coming that it's a great venue and a great festival and test it really is. Yeah, now, no, you both do tremendous shows with the festivals and we're probably be associated with both you guys. We really are. I think I said John, you've been in front of ours since we started this podcast pretty much. And if you're listening to grill this on I hired or spotify or where? Apple or sounder or where were you get your podcast and you just you know, maybe you're in California or Alaska. We have I was reviewing these stats today and we're in like forty countries. Yeah, I don't know. There's actually people in China that are listening grill right. But if you find yourself landing in Rochester New York, the roar box beer hall is located at Ninety Seven Railroad Street in downtown Rochester, and a row box on buffalo road is a boo pub that's at three thousand eight hundred and ninety five buffalo road in Rochester New York. So if you wind up being at either one of those places, you went absolutely we got about fifteen more minutes or so. We went long because we can be who sets our podcast. Yeah, but just get talking it. So can I? Can I just do an appearance thing here? Really you could know. You go ahead. Well, we if you work on May twelve, are friends here in Rochester New York at Advantage Federal Credit Union are hosting a fundraiser at the blades, which is a bar restaurant at ninety university avenue in Rochester, New York, from five to eight o'clock and there will be guest bartenders Nice, including yours, truly wait and I think from six to thirty, I'm there would Dan Mason from the Red Wings Very Baseball team here in Rochester New York, and and we'll be competing to see who can get the most tips, which goes to the charity. So just a little self serving stuff there. I of course we'll tip you, Jim, I appreciate. How are you with your mixed drinks? Nice tee? I'm pretty good. John, there isn't a mixed drink. I don't like. That's good. You know. That's but everyone would be intimidated. Yeah, every once in a while somebody'll come in there and want something, you know from Mars and I you know whatever, but it's so fun and they have a book there that you yeah, it's gonna say pelletual Boston the book. And believe me, there's employees there. They aren't letting us go rogue. A lot of fun, especially with how much you poor and yeah, drink right. Yeah, yeah, that's had to be there for that, but that might help your tips. Yeah, that really will, you really will. Here you go, but you know Dan Mason, he's great and it'll be a lot of fun and will, you know, raise, hopefully raise some money for a good charity? Absolutely, absolutely. Just I just had a couple more quick questions for you guys, and then we'll maybe have one more beer before we get out of here too. As far as the direction of craft beer right now, we've talked about the variety of different kind of beers and crap here. We talked about that. brewers. Right now our kind of focus on the log Er's in the pilzars because it is a even though...

...it's a cleaner and again, I don't like to say simpler, because it's not simpler, but it's a cleaner and it's not as much of a complex plate flavor, even though kind of really is, because but, like you said, you can't mess it up because you can taste it if you mess it up. What's the trend for the drinkers though, right now? What, what's more, what's the Popular Beers right now that you're hearing or what people are asking for more nowadays? As far as craft beer, what do you think? I mean to start. Yeah, so I'm going to dig a little deeper on that question because what we try to do is we try to follow trends generationally. Right. So millennials really kicked off this craft beer trend, right. They really were the first group in mass that really cared about where their food came from, really cared about where their drink came from, and they enjoyed the connection. And so they're the largest segment of craft beer drinkers. They also drink wine and distill. Sure, it's absolutely insider and they're their lovers of all gen x close behind. Yeah, and so so that you know. So they're, you know, like the brewer, the main brewers association, you know, looks at generational trends and, you know, Gen z the new drinkers. Really, they don't they don't know. Right. So what's the future look like? I don't know. You know, they're not really drinkers at this point, but but they might be. You know, cannabis is going to be legal here in new Yorkerd is legal and you're going to have dispensaries by the end of this year. You know, there's a lot of though, be weed beer there. You know, probably probably working on it. Yeah, not, not anytime soon, right, you know, and you won't have, you know, dispensaries serving beer and you won't have breweries dispency. We right. Yeah, it just you won't see that. But yeah, eventually. I mean right now you can't even do cbd and beer because it's not FDA proof that. That'll come with time. But you know, generationally we don't know what this next generation is going to do which affects John's business. Right. So you know there's millennials, we know, like his beer and you know Jen Estra's do, and baby boomers do and well, he finally got to mind my generation, do you know? But we don't know what Genz we don't know. You know, the ones that are just turning twenty one now. Where where their trends are? Who knows? You know, crystal balls are really tough. Yeah, mine is usually pretty foggy, to be honestly, and I make lots of mistakes. But the Nice thing about our industry is because it is a group of fairly small companies, they can react pretty quickly and I think we do that. You know, Seltzer's were very popular. Yeah, we all are before, but but they, you know, they slowed a little bit. I thanks you that. You know, we're drinking off. Well, it's leveled off and I think the last summer it didn't grow as fast as people had anticipated that it would. So it has tapered off just a little bit and I think you know, especially when you're with your friends. Well, I guess if you're out back grilling, you know they have the smaller cans. There's a whole they don't have any taste and not. No, I don't know that's but then you look at this hour, you know when it's fruity and it's lower and alcohol and it kind of hits the mark. It hits that same mark. So we think that, being creative, we can as as those trends are, we can meet those trends and make sure that we offer products that people like. I think we'll do that. We have a in the summer we have a Rottler, which is a German style, very light. You know, they really you know, it's like it's kind of into biking. If you're athletic and you stop for the Germans, even as they're riding their bike. They want to have to be right. I like that attitude for those those are the say, you know, that's like almost like drinking a cells or, but it's a beer, right, and we're not going to get into a cult business. And I don't criticize breweries that consider it. It's fine whatever they want to do. We want to trace, stay true to who we are, but we can make beers that have those same kind of flavors of people embrace. The Germans have the whole thruway thing down. We went on a Viking River cruise, right, so we had to take a bus from whatever we got on the autumn we stopped at one of these thruway rest stops on the autumn. They had twelve different kinds of beer on tap and it was awesome. They had food day. It is the thruway rest stop of your drink, and so I came back here and on a regular radio program I'm talking about how they should be doing that out of them state. You know, it's definite, though, and even goes back when I lived there and while mid s they are so tough with drinking and driving, yeah, that they could even do that because they know the driver will not have it, the passengers will never want. I want to have to because I yet I'm not knocking. I don't want anyone to think I'm making selters. I'm not. I had them that they're okay. They're good for the summer. Again, if you're especially if you're drinking a bunch of them, is great. I don't think I've told this to you before, a John, the thing that I and there's some that are exception, but the thing that I didn't quite get with the salts is that the flavor profile is almost like dricking the sultzer water like a which is which is good. I drink them at work becaucause I'm trying to, you know, not have as many colors when I'm working. But I think...

...when I drink beer I want like, I want flavor, I want I want to have a mouth feel, I want to have all that stuff, and I think the seltzers like this. So here's my question. I guess I'm trying to get to the question trying to ask here. Do you think selters are popular just because of the fact that they're light and low calorie, not because of the flavor? Yes, I mean, but I'd buy some. I'm not a self right, I understand. We had a little party. This is very anecdotal, but we had all of my kids friends and there had to be twelve or fifteen. We brought all sorts of different selzers. We just thought it would be fun to figure out which one they liked. Well, at the end, after drinking a lot of them, they all kind of and they all drank selt they like selt y'all kind of said I don't like any of them really after drinking a bunch of them, and I again there's nothing wrong with that. They think capture a big part of the market. Yeah, it's same for me. Yeah, but I think people will come around and I think we can do something that. Drinking this hour to me has so much more flavor and character and it's just, you know, it's different. So I agree. What do you think, Paul? That? Yeah, I mean Seltzer's. My daughter in college really love Seltzer's. They drink seltzer's because they weren't really into beer. I think, you know, the new trend, which I think was going to is going to hurt crap beer a little bit as ready to drink cocktails, urtd's, that are they're really starting to rise now. They're kind of you know, being able to get a cocktail in a can that's super fruity and you know you can't taste any alcohol like that. That sort of thing is a new thing. There's so much more variety now, especially for the young drinkers, you know, and hopefully, when, I think the sort of the trend is is that, you know, they will gravitate to beer. I don't know if any of US really love the first beer that we ever had. We kind of just learned to like it and then be evolved. Some of these I remps. I did, yeah, and I remember. All right, there you go. You know these. You drink one of these cocktails, it's full of alcohol. You know, the tastes like you know well well that strawberries and, you know, wonderfulness and rainbows. You buy them in a grocery store. You can't. You can't have hard liquor in something. It's a much longer story, but you know, this is something that we're fighting as an association. Okay, a little bit, because they're wanting to be tax like beer, you know, and not as a liquor drink, and they want to be as available as beer because it's in a can and it might be in the same size. So this is an industry that's growing, that's trying to get on beer trucks, all of these things. So we kind of trying to say no, no, it's a mixed drink, it's a cocktail. It belongs in a liquor store and it belongs, you know, not on the beer aisle with right beer. There's don't the Mike's Harder, all those harmonade and all that stuff. Isn't? Isn't that similar to that? What does what's the alcohol? And that? Those are like fine cores, aren't they sort of where there? Yeah, but they're mall base. Okay, Jim. Each state is different. Yeah, so there are states that you can buy spirits. I don't know, Florida's not, but there are states where you can. Just you go into the liquor store and spirits are there. In New York you can, to Paul's point, and some of those really have a vodka or whatever. It's grain based and it's a true spirit. Right. A lot of the other ones that are malt based, you know, alcohol. So you can get those a grocery store. I get it. You go into convenience store now and I'm like, how are they doing selling fireball shots you see anywhere? Yeah, because because they're all based. That makes sense. We're just the radio programming work. So we were just talking about that. So Paul is at a different product than the fireball that you'd buy in the layers. It's the same label, but that's what I ask that question, as I how are they selling fireballs in here? And they's because it that's the malt base. It's malt based. Huh. So, well, last thing we need is to be able to go to the grocery store and buy spirits. I can come on. Oh, okay, you know. Well, all right, maybe see. I think we got just that. We yeah, you know, I love that Scotch Oil, but we're drinking heavy beers. Yeah, the Hellas. Let's go to that. Let's go to that Hellas. Okay, now I'm excited about this. This is awesome. If you could give us a little quick rundown of this, I will just tricket myself. You guys can talk about golden collar. It's more in those south of Germany. Northern Germany is pilsners. This is this is a logger golden in color. Nice fresh hops. You know, we use cool noble hops, which are European hops. Most of the hops we get are from Washington state. These are actually from Europe. It's really Nice, especial yeast that we use it and stuff. It's great, great summer easys of a can. Is that? What is this king size through for all through outcer and, as John said, this is a definitely an easier beer. Five one. So this is one work that you can have a few overnight like die. So I'm glad. This is probably a smart way to end. Yeah, that's a good they're good after dinner. Yeah, right. So again I want to thank you. Guys are coming? Yeah, can I can before we run out of time, and I ask you, guys questions. You're always asking the question. So so what? Why do you want? Look, got you to love? You know so much. I know the grilling part of it, and it is grilled this and that's a big part of it. But like, why do you love Craft Beer? Why did you get into this and now doing beer blogs and having us with the with this, like what?...

I'll let you go from Gosh, I've always liked to be and and I was an institutional beer drinker, you know, the Jenny light and Budweiser and whatever, and I had a time in my life when I had one of those lights, Miller light or whatever you know, in it but it never it was just a beer. It wasn't cool. I mean it wasn't really unique. And then I started drinking some some craft beers that were mostly stouts and dark beers, which I really like, and and I remember saying to myself this was just much, much better than anything I've ever had. And then I met Matthew and he said, what do you think about sours, and I said, well, I've had a couple of hours and they're just okay. They're sour, but you know whatever. And then he we brought in some fruited sours and it just took off from there. We just I love the thing. For me, and I think Matthew too, without taking some of his talk here, but there's I want to try them all because I love the variety and there's stuff I think I don't like that I turned out liking like crazy, and then there's things that really sound good when that wasn't that was okay right, but it's just so much fun to to work the thing and and try so many different beers. That's how I look at it. I think, in my opinion, I think a lot, especially here in United States, a lot of the start off as industrial and macro beer drinkers. Right, most of us are introduced to beer with the macro beer. It's just that is the way it is. And then there's you always meet that one person that's like the person who opens your eyes as this whole new world, of a different right of it, of Beers. And when that happened to me, ever since it happened to me and I got that this was like before I joined the navy, like s something, when I first had a like a it actual craft beer. I'm like, what is this? What's this? Happened? It was half awise. Well, I'm still what's going on with this thing? But it's so delicious and it's so unique and I felt like I've always wanted to get the word out. You know, I've always had this urge just to tell people this. You can drink so much better than what you're drinking right now. I'm this. There's not that I'm I don't I don't want to take away from anyone who makes a product, whether it's macro, micro craft or not. However, I'm a big on flavor I like. I like to do things that I enjoy and if there's a better way to enjoy drinking, which I believe crapt your is, I think you need to know about it. That's a win. Yeah, and then that's why I it's a past. I'm passionate about it and I don't it's something. It's weird people because I'm really passionate about it, but I have I think it's something that if I see you, like all I do is drink this one crip. But kind of being on the why don't you open up your eyes when new world of Beers and you will see and like and enjoy so much more, and also the people that you meet. It's like a you become almost part of a family once you once you getting environment. I love that too. You know, the fun part of it too, for me is that everybody is trying to create that next cool thing, right then next really good beer, and talking with all these folks at these festivals and whatever that are in this they're so passionate about it and they're they're willing to risk whatever just to create that next really cool tasting craft beer. So it's you know, it's so when for everybody. Yeah, and I was going to say, you know, the popularity of the podcast means also that people love to talk about they don't just drink beer to to, but they do it to share with others or say, Oh, I just got this right. It was hard to get it. You gotta try this. You love it and thing right. It's a culture and it's pretty cool. It really is. Yeah, for all of us. And whether you are an owner or you run a festival or your brewer or you're a canner or you're just a person like me, some idiot that just drinks it, you still feel like you're part of that family. You do. We talked a little bit anyway, we're running out of time that. You know, we said the Brotherhood of crap beer. I would say the sisterhood of crap beer is something that that it's gotten a lot better as well. Women and crap beer. Where we have to do better, and I know you know this is diversity and craft be and we down on that. Yeah, we need to do a better job, you know, in attracting everyone. It's an all inclusive beverage, it really is, and and we need to do more than the great thing about having a festival down in New York City is you'll see that reflected down there, that it's you know more than you would and you know some of the other other cities. So we're working on that. How much are we looking forward to that? I'm excited and I actually I gave John Little Credit on the Rock, the Regal Parleman, to work on. Also as the fact that it's festival is right in the heart of the city. You know what I'm saying, and that is that's appealing because people in the city have an opportunity to go to this thing. Thats right there. I Love I go to so many festivals is ridiculous, but all of them are out of the ways, so you kind of ilate yourself from people that could make it there. Will you write herd...

...of city? Everyone go there, and that's fantastic. You know, in New York State, back in two thousand and twelve there were ninety five craft breweries. Now there's four hundred and nine five as of last year, so that that says somebody's doing something right. So five hundred, four and and we want to go to every one of those five hundred for don't we? Matthew, you're on the list. Both of both of you, every single one, are a big part of not justice industry, industry, but both of you are a big part in die first and diversifying craft. You're also both of you are you guys should be proud of that. Both of you guys were trying and trying when you got a long way to go. We need to do better. All right, we're going to. Let's do it. Some last words before we got to hear John Any last words dealing. The I can say is thank you for the Beers, him for the RIB. This is a great way to spend the number. Really enjoyed it. For you guys, drive home. Will take you over and show you the where we film, the outdoor kitchen and all right, know. Well, there's coffee there too. Might have another another ripper to Paul. I would say for anybody and everybody you know, that just keep supporting your local, I know, the craft brewery. I mean it really is their own family owned breweries, their neighborhood breweries, and you know, we're still still at you know, in a pandemic and there's a lot of breweries that are still playing catch up. You know, right now they're not yet they're. Their tap rooms might look full, but trust me, they're they're they need. They need every bit of business, Your Business. They can get absolutely by local. Absolutely. What do you got? I just think this is just a wonderful addition of grill list. These two guys are great. John Earlam, thank you so much for coming in. Paulonne, the executive director of the New York State Brewers Association, will see you in Long Island and we will see John. Will see you soon, because that's salmon and that deep fried. What's your corn? That corn we had was the best we've ever had. Our corn was ridiculous, roarbock. So well, you know what I'm going to say. I'm going to be the person who's advertising stuff here. There you go, some sermoncom grill this podcastcom INFO at real this podcast. You got a robotxcom right website for you is thinking. WHY DRINK? And WHYCOM? There you go say that again. Think, N why drink, and I love itcom Gook, crabs, everything. No, I think you got a buddy. All right, thanks everybody for listening to this edition of Grill this next week. Yeah, never know what you're doing to get, but they'll be something to eat something to drink. Will see you next time.

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